Curse

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

One thing is certain, communication on Anet's part was very bad on this and it feels like they set up a trap. However I think it's just negligence of the CR team. Either that or they run around like headless chickens at the office.

Amen to that brother.

On that note, have I mentioned I'm a Wiki Gnome?

There's a feedback suggestion made by Karate Jesus for better communication in-game. A lot of people seem to be contributing to it. Maybe it will come to something (doubt it, but you never know).

Here's the link: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._Communication

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Btw, if the CR team ever reads this, saying you're going to communicate more and actually communicating more are actually 2 separate things. Learn the difference.

I'm starting to like that guy.

slowerpoke · Oct 21, 2009, 05:05 PM // 17:05

lack of swift action on this and other matters is why anet fail.

instead they chose to ignore it and the scale of the problem has grown to the point where any action is moot.

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

yep. could have, should have and maybe would have.

That is for Anet to know, and you to find out.

look at that as the communities 1st warning. i.e. DON'T DO IT. (/roll removed)

I think you're forgetting one thing here...Zquest. amirite?

Hmmm...Communities 2nd WARNING?

I guess some people are to stupid to see the warning signs, Huh?

what are you hiding? you claim you didn't partake, but those are the words of a desperate, condemned man.

I think the community had enough warnings, yet they chose to go on ahead, and merrily exploit a situation thinking "it's ok, anet can't ban us. thousands are doing it"

I think you need to stop being an ANet fanboy and look at the big picture here. RR day has been going on for weeks. Not once has ANet said anything about it. Yes, it's against the EULA. So is what rawr did in the monthly. How can you punish the thousands of players who participated in 'manipulating' a ladder that's going to be removed this week, but not do shit to players who manipulated something that mattered? No, I'm not saying that 'oh they got away with manipulating something that mattered so I can manipulate something that means shit all to ANet and get away with it', I'm saying that's not quite the message you want to be sending out to your community. ANet, stop playing favorites.

The issue could have been solved easily. What did ANet do? Let it slide until it got out of control. When do ANet step in to say something? When they want to imply that people will get banned for this.

What warning signs are you talking about? Yeah, they removed /roll. Did anyone get banned for it? No one ever reported it. It was obviously acceptable enough in their eyes to not do anything. But what happens when they let a minor issue get out of hand for weeks? They start throwing out bans. If you think that's logical, then your logic fails. In a declining game, if you expect people to not abuse something like this, you have absolutely no clue about what's going on.

What am I hiding? Words of a desperate, condemned man? That's hilarious. Ask anyone I play with the last time I logged on for more than 2 minutes. I'm hiding nothing. Gold is worthless in Guild Wars, I have plenty of better things to do than enter battle /resign repeat x100. I'm looking at this from a 'hey guys lets not make our already small community even smaller for dumb reasons' point of view.

In the end, ANet could have prevented this, they let it escalate, and now they're going to punish for it. They knew it was happening weeks before it got into a huge problem. They did nothing. Now since everyone is doing it, they finally decide to step in and ban people. If you think that's the right step in a declining game where a fair bit of the community (not only guru) already think low of ANet for their actions in the past, I beg you to never, ever apply for a gaming company, because the game would die quite fast.

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I think you need to stop being an ANet fanboy

quit reading right there. you're an ADMIN. Act like it.

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

quit reading right there. you're an ADMIN. Act like it.

I'm glad you have no counter argument. <3

PS: I hope you know saying someone is acting like a fanboy isn't flaming/trolling.

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I'm glad you have no counter argument. <3

I do. but you know as well as I, who will end up with the ban, and or deleted posts.

right?

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

I do. but you know as well as I, who will end up with the ban, and or deleted posts.

right?

No one. If you think I'm going to ban you for arguing with me, then quite frankly I'm insulted.

Gun Pierson · Oct 21, 2009, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

lack of swift action on this and other matters is why anet fail.

instead they chose to ignore it and the scale of the problem has grown to the point where any action is moot.

Absolutely, but as we know they don't have the recources for swift action as far as coding is concerned, communication could have been their next best thing, coupled with action from support.

Imagine CR team and support working together and coordinating their efforts and Regina posting at the time the issue became hot that it is against the rules and that perma bans are coming up for everybody who's getting caught. This would certainly not have missed its effect imo. Even going ingame with 'GM' above the character and informing/warning people. It's something Gaile is not afraid of.

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Imagine CR team and support working together and coordinating their efforts and Regina posting at the time the issue became hot that it is against the rules and that perma bans are coming up for everybody who's getting caught. This would certainly not have missed its effect imo. Even going ingame with 'GM' above the character and informing/warning people. It's something Gaile is not afraid of.

If ANet stated on the Guild Wars site that participating in it would get you banned, or at least informed the community (on something other than wiki, because it's a cesspool if shit to read through), then the bans would have been fair. Instead they kept their mouths shut until shit hit the fan, and began hiding behind the EULA. Just when I thought communication between the devs/community was getting better, this happens.

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

so let me get this right arkantos. you did not, nor do you think this RR resign was an exploit/ cheat in any way?

this bullshit, rawr did it..1000s did it. doesn't cut it. we'll start from there.

MMSDome · Oct 21, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

And at above poster. It is not a bug, cheat, or exploit for the simple fact that the game allowed you to do it. If A-Net did not like it they could have simply removed the quest or required 1 Automated tournament victory in order to get credit for the quest.

Yes I realize that this does not remove RR because people will still do it for the title. RR would never have become famous if A-Net had not decided to remove HB. By removing it they put people in the mind-set that they need to grind the title as fast as possible.

In short A-Net caused RR.

All this bs aside... Hero Battles being removed tomorrow, why is there still a discussion on this topic???

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Hero Battles being removed tomorrow, why is there still a discussion on this topic???

Because people are bored/pissed off/there are bans coming/etc.

Btw, did anyone know that Guild Wars has a newsletter? Why the hell isn't that communication medium being used? They use Twitter and Facebook but don't send emails? What the hell?

Random point, I know, but it fits into the whole "lack of communication" theme we have going on here.

Painbringer · Oct 21, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

All this bs aside... Hero Battles being removed tomorrow, why is there still a discussion on this topic???

I second the close of this nonsense its manipulating everyone knows this what a-net does about is there decision not ours. Let it go

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

so let me get this right arkantos. you did not, nor do you think this RR resign was an exploit/ cheat in any way?

this bullshit, rawr did it..1000s did it. doesn't cut it. we'll start from there.

Never did I say it was not an exploit/cheat. This is what I'm saying:

The situation began years ago with /roll. Lots of people were doing to to farm commander points. It got bigger, and ANet decided to step in by removing /roll from hero battles. They did not punish anyone.

Then started the red resign. It's been going on much longer than the current outbreak. ANet knew about it. They did nothing, they said nothing. They acted like it didn't exist.

Then came the monthly incident. Rawr and another guild manipulated the monthly to get into elimination. The community found and and got mad. What did ANet do? Slap on the wrist. Hey, it's rawr, they're obviously elite players that matter.

After that, people were still 'manipulating' the ladder in HB. ANet knew, didn't step in, didn't say a word, nothing.

Then, the outbreak. ANet announced that they were removing hero battles. On days where hero battles was the zaishen quest, people started doing red resign again. Every day it was the hero battles quest, more people joined in. ANet was fully aware of the situation. Again, they did nothing, they said nothing. The situation got out of control, with dozens of districts full of people participating. Yet again, they did nothing, they said nothing. It got out of hand, and people started discussing it more and more. That's when Gaile decided to imply that they were going to ban people for this.

Where is this fair warning you speak of? Please, don't answer with the EULA. All ANet had to do was tell people this was a bannable offense when it started to get popular. When a guild gets a slap on the wrist for manipulating the monthly, what message do you think ANet is sending? They don't care if rawr manipulate a monthly tournament, but they care when thousands of players manipulate a ladder that's going to be removed this week? No, two wrongs do not make a right, but that doesn't justify ANet's lack of actions.

As I said, this whole thing could have been avoided if ANet communicated with their community for once. It's as simple as that. You can't blame the community for doing this when ANet has not said a single time that this was a bannable offense....until thousands of players did it after 3 years, which is how long this manipulation has been going on.

If you want to blame something, blame it on ANet's lack of simple communication skills. I know they're busy, but it doesn't take much effort at all to let players know what they're doing is bannable before thousands of players begin doing it for weeks.

As Black Metal mentioned below, going from zero to ban is an absolutely ridiculous way to manage your customers. Please, argue against that.

Mangione · Oct 21, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I may be wrong, but I think no ban will be issued.

While Anet may be waving the ban-hammer, striking people with it is another matter.
Words are one thing, actions another.

Yes, I think that RR is cheating, and this is why I didn't participate in it.
Yes, I think cheaters will get away with their free zkeys and zcoins and title points.

It doesn't bother me much what will happen, as I said it before, the only thing that matters to me is the message.
You can cheat and be rewarded.

Black Metal · Oct 21, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

so let me get this right arkantos. you did not, nor do you think this RR resign was an exploit/ cheat in any way?

this bullshit, rawr did it..1000s did it. doesn't cut it. we'll start from there.

all right, I'll take a crack at this.

I think we all here agree that it's an exploit. But it's also a very simple game mechanic. Let's put ourselves aside, and look at the bigger picture; that being the general game population, as in the thousands that were RR'ing.

When RR started, literally thousands of people were saying 'Happy RR day!'. It was like an event, one which the vast majority of people thought was completely legit, because the mechanic was so blatantly simple. I honestly think the vast majority thought it was perfectly fine -- everyone knew it, were happy to participate, plus HB was going away and pve'ers only way of making zkeys, xth, had been taken away.

Put yourself in their shoes. Right now, they've probably forgotten about it and have no idea this discussion is going on, and would be shocked to think there might be some kind of account action taken against them. Now actually imagine this happens. These people thought this was ok, Anet had no obvious warning against doing this, now they are blindsided. Most of them have never visited guru, and after getting over the initial shock, will have a very, very low opinion of Anet, and will harbor this when asked to patronize Anet when GW2 launches.

Anet got themselves in a corner with this. As mentioned before, they either should have taken away the mechanic, or introduced a very obvious warning system. This from zero to ban in the blink of an eye is a very poor way to manage their customers. Anet has themselves to blame for not heading this off when it was manageable, and consequences could have been more in line with the seriousness of the offense.

slowerpoke · Oct 21, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Absolutely, but as we know they don't have the recources for swift action as far as coding is concerned, communication could have been their next best thing, coupled with action from support.

I don't think its simply a case of having 'low resources' which is of course ANets excuse for everything, but of priorities.
Urgent matters should be dealt with first, not thrown on the back of the queue of issues that are piling up.

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

I may be wrong, but I think no ban will be issued.

While Anet may be waving the ban-hammer, striking people with it is another matter.

Actually, they're already banning RR day botters. I don't know if they'll actually ban real players, but you'd better hope to God (if you RR'd) that you didn't have a 3rd party program running. They're already perma'ing those guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

Words are one thing, actions another.

Good point. For example, we were told twice now that we'd have better communication.........so........yea.

Draikin · Oct 21, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

That's when Gaile decided to imply that they were going to ban people for this.

But in the end they're not going to ban anyone, at least not for match manipulation. Gaile can't afford to admit that they don't enforce the EULA, that's the only reason she implied that they might ban people. The fact is that Support never took action on match manipulation in HB and they're not going to start now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile (wiki)

What I have said is that the Live Team considers RR Day (with the insta-resign feature) to be a form of match manipulation. Beyond identifying what it is I have not identified what the team will elect to do about it.

It should be obvious what Gaile is trying to say here if you read between the lines.

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

The fact is, she implied that they would be banning for this. Judging by ANet's actions in the past, it's not hard to believe that they'd do something as ridiculous as this. I truly hope they don't take action for this, but I'm not going to hold my breath.